Now those of you who know me will recognise that I tend to like to do things well, I'm a great believer in you pay for what you get. I drive nice car, I like good wine, good food, good hotels and I'm lucky enough to live in a nice house in a nice area....I like to think that if something's worth doing, and you can afford it, then it's worth doing properly.
Now just because I'll pay an extra tenner for a bottle of vino from Oddbins does not mean I'm going to give free money to others (last night on 5/10 was an exception by the way!) ... and especially not to the poker companies who are already raking it in (literally!)
Poker = business, and in business you look after your margins, so if you can find an edge or a saving you need to exploit it, no matter how small a dividend it pays.
So here's my 1st pearl of wisdom... and I'm slightly hesitant to write this because it does not seem to bother many people...... maybe i'm missing something really obvious.
Most people who read this will be UK based. The on-line poker skins that offer £ accounts are in the minority but there are still plenty of them around.... Hills, Betfair , StanJames etc etc. Most of the US rooms Stars, Party etc etc will only offer $ accounts.
I can not understand why any UK based player would want to play on a $ account.
I'm not talking about $ tables (where you cash in and out at the same rate) I'm talking about the currency of the account where the poker room holds your money.
I had a conversation with the (self proclaimed) best player on Crypto 2/5 recently. He'd just joined Sun poker room on the Crypto network as they give a better rakeback deal and via an affiliate you can get a trip to the LV and a few $K to buy in to some of the minor WSOP events. Now the trouble is Sun only do $ accounts. I asked him to check his last withdrawal statement , it worked out at about £1.1k in his bank account, I ran the same transaction through Thomas Cooks web site and they would have given him £1.2k for the same amount in $ he cashed out!!!
This was a month or so ago and I didn't make a note of the exact figures .... but a self imposed gift to the card room of this size is not the smart move for a serious player.... no wonder they can afford to give a few % extra rake. Also, this does not include the exchange hit for moving the £s in either!
Since then I've spoken to a few people (non-casual players) that I know play on skins with $ accounts, I've asked them all about the exchange rates in and out and without fail the answer has been "Umm .... dunno!" ....madness!
As I said, I've not looked into this in detail and measured it as I dont have a $ account anywhere, feel free to comment and tell me I'm talking crap. It would be interesting to run some a tests to see exactly how much the hit is and extrapolate it across a 12month period to see how much it really does cost per annum. I can't find any info published by any of the main rooms or neteller on their daily exchange rates either..... I can't think why!
I have seen somewhere that there are complex ways to reduce the hit by paying in via Switch to Party Poker and then using a $ Neteller a/c, it goes something like this.....
£ Bank Account... switch payment to PartyPoker account in $.... Party withdraw to Neteller $ account.... Neteller to Sun poker room $... win a fortune.... Sun poker room to netteller... neteller to Party.... party $ to switch £ bank A/C
I'm not sure how much this would save (or if they let you do it) , again it needs some measurement........ IMO its easier to play on £ account.
Cheers,
Jim
3 years ago
6 comments:
BTW only using Sun as an example here.. im sure thay all much the same!
Wonky
Really good, thought provoking reads - keep em coming!
And good luck with the little un...
Alex
Jim I have some thoughts on this.
Why not play on the account with the good rakeback and when the exchange rate is favourable, lose the money to yourself heads up on another Crypto skin? Different IP addresses necessary, but I will happily do it for you.
Also why not play the $ tables on the £ accs? I know the rakeback will be reduced if you are a player who doesn't play many pots, but I still can't believe that it is as much as the saving you make on rake paid in pots that you win (anything over 16.6% of pots played you are in front).
The rake is maxed out @ $3 or £3 so why pay more?
Rob, was going to cover the $£ table in a later blog entry. You are right, but the simple problem is that the 5/10$ table are usually empty (especially in the day)and all useless players sit on the £ tables.
As for the heads up tranfer. Its an option but i know at least 1 person whos had an account frozen doing this, and im not sure how it works out with the rates... I may do some digging.
Excellent post, I did some enquiring into the rates I was being offered when transfering through neteller and it took about 5 emails and a phone call to get some answers.
However this is industry wide phenomenon and no one ever puts up a fuss, so untill either everyone who is a serious player starts to kick up a fuss or else an alternative to neteller offers some competition then I cant see any change in the future.
Eoinak
Wotcher Jim, Steve here. Hope all is well in the Poker world.
Now I know bugger all about Poker...I play the 1 cent tables!!! But I know about banking. What you are saying about exchange rates is spot on...you're getting gipped. BUT you also get gipped by your high street bank when it comes to these....The normal is about 2.5% off the money market rate when you use International transactions.
My advice to the serious player who wants to opperate in dollars is to open a US bank account. I've not tried to do this but I guess bar hauling yourself to the states it would be a case of getting in touch with one of the bigger ones such as Citibank who have ops over here.
You are only getting the exchange rate hit on major, infrequent transactions....You might even make a few quid by keeping it there until the dollar gets stronger again.
I do know British people who have dollar accounts so it is possible.
It might also be worth consulting your accountant to see if you could set yourself up as a company....I guess some of you may have already looked at this. From a purely banking point of view, you may be able to secure a better rate on a business account.
On the general theme of this, I would have thought that anyone who is opperating at a semi pro level and shoving a few grand a month through Poker should seriously think about getting advice from an accountant....You wouldn't open up a small business without doing so.
The tax laws might be a little hazy in this area so there might well be some room to exploit the situation and get some breaks....% off your ISP, phone bills, electricity, heating (if you are playing from home), that sort of thing. Might be small change but if you are doing this for a living then you should take it seriously...as Jim obviously has with his considerations on exchange rates and rakeback.
By the way, apart from me, who looses all the money you guys win??
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